Possible if the hips were gyrated slightly, titled vertically, the horizontal width could be reduced by an inch. Nickole called Christopher Watts and requested he come home and check on Shanann. The autopsy also made no references to elevated levels of any Thrive-related chemicals. Hello everyone, Ive wondered if he made her a drink when she got home, a smoothie with some type of alcohol that you wouldnt taste in it to knock her out because she didnt drink. I know that OCD was mentioned on several instances in the Discovery by those who knew her, but do they have the qualifications to make that diagnosis? Utter Rubbish! So wheres the problem here? This put undo pressure on the marriage and Chris being the douche bag he is, it was too much pressure to perform I beleive. She strangled them.. @Nick I thought the bedsheets in the bedroom were soiled? Have they watched something? So if his parents are doing interviews and book deals, he gets it honest I reckon. One body was face down in the south side of the tank. Completely empty stomach contents doesnt necessarily indicate they died when Shanann died. And so on. I learned all about a Sleeper/Chokeholdhated that part of SO academy, but is a great way to gain upper-hand, control over a perp and render them unconscious with one thump of my forearm on their neck/carotid artery.,, you black out immediately! And fyi, I am not going to use the actual pictures/videos in my project. It takes 4 5 hours for a stomach to empty after eating. @Nickvdl IMO I think he strangled her from behind and on their bed. He is very thorough, very professional, analyses and peels back all the layers. As CrimeOnline previously reported, Chris Watts tried to pin the murders of 3-year-old Celeste and 4-year-old Bella on his wife when he first confessed to murdering Shanann, who was 15 weeks pregnant at the time. Ive been reading this whole thread and as I always respect other ppls views and opinions as much as I can, there is one contributor to this conversation that thinks they know everything sigh. And the fact that theyd had a bankruptcy in 2015 apparently hadnt helped her wise up at all. Her friend had to tiptoe around the place when she stayed over for fear of waking the kids up. Good to have a former forensic detective around. Lastly, he lies constantly to the police, why is this self serving story all of the sudden believable? I havent finished reading the Discovery yet (just at the freaky prison fan mail/hate mail) but I havent read anything yet about any DNA testing of the sheets? If Chris *hadnt* killed them, would he have gone to so much trouble to hide the bodies? Shanann was in there with her on top of her. It was the early hours of the morning, she was pregnant, fed up with airport holdups and storms, and tired. Chris Watts advised that blankets and stuffed animals were left by the sheet which was near Shananns grave. The reports show that the bodies of both little girls were placed inside oil containers with a narrow opening that was only 8 inches in diameter. The Netflix show details the deteriorating relationship between Chris and Shanann, who began suspecting her husband was having an affair and felt he was suddenly pulling away from her, a fact she spilled to numerous friends in anguished text messages. Watts previously told investigators that Shannan's killing. Not a chance she would have run the risk of waking up the children by going into their rooms she knew theyd be fine as shed often said Chris was a good Dad. like others, cannot wrap my brain around his behavior. If thats the case I cant figure where else they would have been at that time. She probably snuggled up next to him & was able to fall asleep. Addendum: The cadaver dog wasaso very interested in the washing machine and his handler, Jayne, says quite clearly that her dog has scented death by the machine (check the K9 video, but watch the volume, the cadaver dogs bark is quite shrill! Dont mislead people into believing there should be feces in the location of a murder. Chris and or others..I tend to agreeShan ann was imodefinitely disabled at some pointBella maybe not..she fought hard. He said those were consistent with trying to flee while being smothered. I have read through this entire post and this is the one question that I dont think is getting enough attention. Googled ways to suffocate children? Chris cleaned all that up so quickly and completely? The ground was visible disturbed. Everything you say can & has been disputed. https://www.childrenshospital.org/conditions-and-treatments/conditions/e/esophageal-strictures, a medical history significant for peanut allergies. Not one place on his body? Shanann was found in a shallow grave at an oil site near the drums. But considering she seemed to be an amazing mother, I highly doubt she was drinking. Because you asked if I hurt her and I said no but I hurt her emotionally the agents said they already knew about Nikki which took Chris by surprise, he then realizes shes talked to the police. Its something so outside my wheelhouse that I didnt even know it could me done. The autopsy report found that Shanann was in her second trimester of pregnancy and that the "largely decomposed fetus and placental unit" was found "expelled from the gravid uterus." Rigor mortis lasts 8-12 hours. Autopsy reports for Bella and Celeste say that the necks of the children were swabbed even though they were in a container of oil, water, and associated sludge matter. Watts at first tried to claim that when he told Shanann he wanted a separation, she killed their daughters. Wow, you are really reaching here. Under anaerobic conditions (absence of free oxygen) acids such as lactic acid, acetic acid and butyric acid are produced during decomposition, as well as a number of alcohols which include butyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol and acetone. Ive been sleeping in my bra during my pregnancy- because my chest hurts all the time and taking it off even to shower is extremely uncomfortable. Look up alcohol levels in postmortem state. 2. Unless youd take that as he was going on the run with them, which I highly doubt. When youre pregnant you do, breasts get tender and the extra support helps. Only feces already in the lower part of the large intestine/colon is going to evacuate and even then- it depends on the position of the body, the amount of decomposition and rigor mortis. My closets and nightstand is much cleaner than hers and I dont have OCD. Lack of petechiae. Because she was submerged in oil for four days. I dont know why, but I have a deep need (would have never expected this) to discuss what happened, and I need to be honest with my observations. (942948) Interview with NK about CW's failing marriagehe badmouthed SW a lot . Do you have any family that said she had OCD? Unfortunately, I know what its like to be strangled. Will we ever know the order in which they were killed? Chris Watts strangled and smothered his pregnant wife Shanann, 34, to death, before strangling their daughters Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3, with a blanket in 2018. > Most do not, really? Shannan's cause of death was strangulation while an autopsy found crude oil in Bella and Celeste's throats, stomach and lungs. D Oil, water and sludge debris in the stomach She also wanted to make her marriage work. Shannan was a hypochondriac, who was gonna turn her kids into the same. I think he had mental issues too. Jami I have 1 question for you. There is no soul in his eyes. Police photoA sheet was found near where Shanann was buried. think mass gall stones) the bottom line is CW is a Covert Narcissist whose life would enevidably have unraveled at some point as covert express traits thus as a pattern of behavior. https://jcp.bmj.com/content/54/5/348, This is why Shanann had no defensive injuries, and this technique would account for everything in her autopsy, from blood alcohol/ethanol levels to an unbroken hyoid bone It kills me because its pretty clear they went to bed like normal and were awoken to find him killing them. As noted by Crime Watch Daily, police recovered her body in the Frederick area. Makes sense since Shanann has zero marks indicating a struggle, I thought from the jump that she wasnt even awake when he killed her. The autopsy reports for Shanann Watts and her two young daughters show that all three were asphyxiated to death, and it's probable that 4-year-old Bella Watts fought for her life. But then I think if he didnt was he going to leave them at home alone all day? (Oh and the bra with pregnant women 100% The T and underwear sleep outfit? CW was already working out his plan to annihilate his family around the time he was getting ready to make his daughters some dinner. Like you, I was suspicious about the DAs assessment. Police reportsPhotos of the Watts family in the police reports. Shanann returned home from a business trip on the early morning hours of August 13, 2019. [UPDATED] | True Crime Rocket Science / #tcrs, Watts Sentencing: Live Coverage and Analysis [Updated throughout the day] | True Crime Rocket Science / #tcrs, Crime News November 2018 | True Crime Rocket Science / #tcrs, The murder of the Watts children at CERVI 319 as Dramatized in FAMILY MAN, FAMILY MURDERER | True Crime Rocket Science / #tcrs. Thanks for the paper, ganana Im with you on this. Shed been drinking?? Your email address will not be published. Now i fully beleive NK was in on plan, her idea to put bodies in tanks to help disolve them. what proof does this autopsy shows that chris beyond a reasonable doubt killed his kids?. Some people believe his story that Shannan killed the kids like he said. Not a single drop of blood on the bed sheets, and she winged him apparently with her nails on his neck. And all I can see is ShanAnns MLM addiction coupled with the desire to live well beyond her means, to give an impression that she was rich-rich-rich, which Im sure she envisioned as a way to promote her business get new people to sign on. How did Shanann Watts die? Not everyone poops when they die, in fact most do not. Do you think CW could have strangled her from behind? Ditto who died first and last. I found nothing unusual with that part. Do you think that maybe she was actually just unconscious? With ShanAnn, IF she was attacked and killed shortly after she arrived home, while still downstairs, she would have still been dressed her underwear and pants would have caught it. The lack of a broken hyoid bone (called thyroid bone in the autopsy?) And, as you point out in one of your replies to anothers comment about the oil in her body, there was no oil in her lungs, in her stomach yes, in her lungs no. Netflix viewers believe a murdered wife sent police a clue from beyond the grave after spotting something "creepy" in the doco about her brutal murder at the hands of her cheating husband. The children were in 20 foot tanks with hatches on top. It would be good to hear your assessment of his assessment. They dissipate in inconvenient circumstances. . @nickdvl. He had only a few friends. She had the girls in daycare full time to the tune of $500 a week, spending $28k a year per official documents, and this HAD to be a financial strain. Chris Watts attacked her from behind, his left hand around her throat and his right hand covering her mouth and nose. No other way to put it. Smothering is albeit horrific, a more a gentle or approach that a mother may take. I wondered if there was a fight, Bella saw him strangle her mother and ran into the basement to hide from him. what was the deal with the blue gloves next to the bed??? Here is what the International OCD Foundation says. She is OCD and very ritualistic in nature. Could Bellas mouth injuries have occurred postmortem when he shoved her through the hatch? And then you test it in various scenarios. Youre obviously trolling! Theyd already pulled $10,000 out of Chris 401K to try and get caught up on their mortgage, but they were somehow burning through money like there was no tomorrow. He could have planned to go to work early that morning so as to avoid talking to Shanann. My question is how do you smother someone with your bare handscover/press their nostrils and mouths? You can pooh-pooh OCD if its not you, but OCD especially for someone with a chronic disease tends to be quite significant. Then I think he went into the girls rooms. LEE: Depends on sometime we find saliva, large amount of saliva, nasal secretion, mixed with small amount of blood on the pillow. He doesnt have a soul!!!!! But, wait a minute, he is that selfish and only thinks of himself, and he is too much of a coward. Could be so because Shanann had no defensive wounds and he said she didnt fight. Its hard to fight a larger man off of you when held down, in fear of dying and trying to gasp for air. Mark your theory makes a lot of sense. They have no empathy, which enables them to be incrediably cruel, if it suits. In this day and age, OCD has become a replacement word for ritualistic behaviour and personal idiosyncrasies. Did you have to cover something up for Shannan? If the digestive tract opens up at death, where did Shannan, Bella and Celeste poop? I love that guy. We know that she went to her office and attempted to order haircare products, and in the welfare check footage you can clearly see a large dark blanket on the sofa, and two small pink chair beds by the side of the sofa. Addition. What do you think about the 8 inch thief hatch, and the narrowest section of Ceecees hips being 9.5 inches, according to the autopsy? Little Celeste, thankfully, seemed to have no idea what was happening to her. Watts has since pleaded guilty to killing his wife and daughters, as well as a charge of unlawful termination of a pregnancy. I also believe he would have thought out a better place to bury them. She wanted to be, and really thought she was, a great mom. This autopsy is performed at the request of the Weld County Coroner, State of Colorado. Listen to the cop who interrogated him after he tells that stupid story. Cuz if shed already died she would have not been engaged in the act of strangling her like he said. He asked one time if he should go look for his familyhe did not ask again about looking and he did not seem overly concerned, the police report said. Im just saying if her friend had never come over. Cyril Wect is an expert who always talks about how drowning victims have water in their lungs ONLY if they are alive during drowning and not completely dead !!!!!! Kind of comforting too if they were unconscious when murdered they wouldnt have died in fear and terror. External bruising may have been caused by the assailant releasing the victim after killing by stranglehold, and the victim falling onto an object which would cause small circular patternation and subsequent bruising. For more information on having conversations at this site: https://crimerocket.com/2018/12/21/true-crime-rocket-science-how-to-have-conversations-on-this-site-and-how-not-to/. Not Shanann! Parents reach for any hope, even if the child is blue, even if rigor has set in, theyre desperate and people who are not emotionally involved as them, professionals,have to tell them its too late. Her legs would have been free, but if he was high up on her chest I doubt she would have been able to even get him with her knees, they would not have reached him. Its what seems to make sense, based on the info we recently learned. I just dont get it. Regarding oil in the stomach, just a thought, but wasnt Bella face up and CeCe face down when removed from the tanks? @Karen. Watts has since pleaded guilty to killing his wife and daughters, as well as a charge of unlawful termination of a pregnancy. Celeste did NOT have any found in hers?? On top of that, he had to forcibly PUSH Bella down into the oil tank, because she was larger than the 8 inch diameter oil tank hole to fit through please answer why? I slept in my bras with all four of my pregnancies. 1. Shan'ann seemed to have a fairly mild case. The LeVel MLM was a huge contributing factor in this familys financial collapse. Gastrointestinal Tract: Thankyou Nick for all your studies, research and insights. *** Wearing a bra to bed is in fact QUITE common with busty women**. Shanann Watts' husband, Chris Watts allegedly confesses to murder The Colorado Bureau of Investigation reported that three-year-old Celeste Watts and four-year-old Bella Watts are also dead along with mom Shanann. The ethanol levels are perplexing though; even in decomposition they are rarely above .07. So its OCD when it comes to what people see, both house and life if you will..but a suitcase at 2 am, 4 months pregnant, I could easily see her saying nope to carrying that suitcase upstairs. Thats a harsh indictment to a woman who cant defend herself. He didnt attempt to revive the children or call for help. So yeah sigh! The reports also show that Shananns fetus had been expelled from her body, which was buried in a shallow grave. But its tough watching some of them, and at times I felt awful for all of themand the girls clearly did not want to be on camera while Shannan clearly wanted them TO be on camera. Or it might be that a place for everything and everything in its place is a good way for me to manage time being able to grab what I need when I need it without having to faff around looking for it. Once the body dies the lower digestive tract opens up. -nickvdl. Based on the history provided and the autopsy findings, the cause of death is asphyxiation due to smothering. At least I would have. Hope he has a wonderful time rotting and thinking about what hes done to his family. Lastly and not related to your book, I continuously read people stating that the only bruises on Shananns body were the on the right side of her neck. And to think CW called a co-worker @ 5pm to tell him that he would be going directly to the oil battery site and told the co-worker he didnt need to. But thats me. Now remember this would be AFTER strangling Shannan carrying her to their room & putting her in bed, so at least 5 minutes and since it would have taken about 4 minutes for CeCe to die 9 minutes had passed supposedly since Shannan had been in her room. 1. I wore my bra at night sometimes as well while pregnant because they become larger, heavier and more tender. When youre pregnant, your chest grows significantly and pretty rapidly- its completely understandable that she might have been wearing one to bed. I feel like maybe she did meet them. They are good at lying and work very hard at appearing normal and very important to be liked. Also just because she was strangled and they were suffocated doesnt mean dirt. He is not only a monster, but also a coward, by quickly disabling his victims. Watts buried Shannan's body in a shallow grave and dumped his daughters' bodies into an oil tank at the oil and gas exploration site where he worked in Frederick, Colorado, US. Shan'ann Watts tells her husband: "I don't want a video of you" while recording her children Chris Watts Case: What would Sherlock Holmes Do? I dont think she ever went into the master bedroom that night. The manner of death is homicide, the autopsy report says. Watts claimed that he snapped and strangled his wife when he found her murdering the girls, but he later pleaded guilty to all three murders. He just didnt want another baby. This is from the transcript of the Larry King Live show covering Scott Petersons conviction in the death of his pregnant wife Lacey thats Dr. Henry Lee, a forensic scientist: KING: If there were smothering, would there have been evidence? Shes not going to carry her suitcase up the stairs because of her pregnant state, and she wasnt feeling well. One of the predatory marketing techniques used by MLMs (which overwhelmingly target MOMs) is that they can be at home *with* their children, making extra money with little effort. There are a lot of types online who get off on blaming victims for what others do. While officers were waiting, Christopher confessed to killing Shanann, and getting rid of the bodies of Celeste and Bella. The DA mentioned that. The autopsy report said that Shanann had a "history of being reported missing and subsequently found unresponsive in obvious state of death in a shallow grave." The cause of death was. Make sense? Mark, that is really interesting! He then "went into a rage," he claimed, and strangled her to death in retaliation. I know, Im a survivor of strangulation. Shanann Watts Cause of Death: How Did the Colorado Mother Die? Even with Bella, no screaming brain said , this is your Bella!! You can see it in his eyes. Which is odd to me again. I see it is listed as pronounced and no estimates of time for cause of death? I own this site, and have posted hundreds of blogs, and written 4 books on the Watts case. I think despite her bravado, she had insecurities just like everyone else, with both herself, and her roles as wife and mother AND someone working in an MLM. I think she died in bed after being knocked unconscious using Marks ethanol method. He is responsible for his own actions, many people live with worse and dont kill anyone. Heres what the autopsy says about Shananns cause of death: The autopsy report said that Shanann had a history of being reported missing and subsequently found unresponsive in obvious state of death in a shallow grave. The cause of death was Asphyxiation due to manual strangulation with Bruising of the Anterior strap muscles of the neck.. As CrimeOnline previously reported, Chris Watts tried to pin the murders of 3-year-old Celeste and 4-year-old Bella on his wife when he first confessed to murdering Shanann, who was 15 weeks pregnant at the time. Chris stated that his wife smothered her children and im sure hes lying but i was hoping to read somewhere here of proof that chris also smothered his kids. Thats a power-nap another thing MLM folk are good at. Maybe im not reading this correctly or i missed it but what proof does this autopsy shows that chris beyond a reasonable doubt killed his kids? But then whats your scenario? Correct. Sounds like a good theory except that Bella did fight for her life as the coroner explained by the hole in her frenulum, the biting of her tongue & insides of her cheeks. I guess since theyre children and small its possible. Watts was arrested on August 15, 2018. Shannan would choke the like out of Watts before she hurt her kids. The police reports contain several photos showing the oil drums where the childrens bodies were found. Saying she will be there with lollipops and other things. I took a lot of interest in the K9 footage as I had a SAR Shore Rescue dog for 13 years (best nose in Cornwall). And then it was turned off. Unless he threw it there and forgot to take it and planned on ridding of it. smother someone with your bare handscover/press their nostrils and mouths. 100% agree. Also, I read that the kids were very light sleepers. While I agree MLM is 100% a pyramid scheme and bad news and that the long term use of their products probably do more harm than good (e.g. @Karen did she get dressed for bed, or did she simply take of her jeans, throw off her flip-flops and decide to settle down for a couple of hours sleep wearing the bra, panties and t-shirt that she arrived home in? I am by no means defending him. He said the blood alcohol is normal after you die. Exhausting and she was pregnant. Shanann was wrapped in a sheet. Im convinced that he did the same to Shanann. She texted him the morning she left for Arizona thanking him for letting her hold him that morning. Just asking a question. Kinda odd. The Watts murders got to me also. He asked to speak to his father before confessing. A person with OCD also wouldnt have that much stuff on the bathroom vanity. It may interest people to see how MLM companies such as Thrive, train their customers and promoters in Time and Management and Organisational skills, both of which can be classified as OCD behaviours to an untrained eye. in any case, who the hell trusts anything coming from Chris Watts? I have a question. The childrens cause of death was given as asphyxiation due to smothering. Bella also had Blunt force trauma. Otherwise I cant imagine why she didnt go for his eyes etc. She often plied them with food and treats and I just felt like she needed to set some boundaries. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Your email address will not be published. Bellas covers were pulled off and she was just lying in bed. Chris came home and gave consent to search and said that he found Shananns wedding ring on the night stand. 5 PM the previous evening, as many of us believe, then by the time he was ready to pass them through the thief hatches, theyd be pliable again. The autopsy is commenced at 1730 hours, on August 17, 2018 on the body of Celeste Watts at the McKee Medical Center, Loveland, CO. Theyd quietly suffocate no violent confrontation, very peaceful. Typo. As a woman, I never go to sleep with my bra on. Back? I didnt see any evidence that Shanann tried to defend herself, probably because he sat on top of her. These are just my opinions (based on zero knowledge). He eventually disappeared for long time, gave me house. It drives me batty to see little Cece kick her legs in joy in the videos and to know they were stopped forever. They went to her house and observed her car in the garage. Ive not discussed it here though, its in the books. Chris Watts is the subject of a new Netflix series called American Murder: The Family Next Door. The two girls were found in oil drums. I guess he did want to get rid of them all, and do it all over again with her. Page 535 Her Dad stated that Shanann would often sleep on the sofa when he stayed at the house, and again when she was in NC after Chris arrived. I do believe that she may have been the one who smothered the children because she was so controlling, according to friends and family, that she didnt want another woman around her kids. Yes, Posted Youtube videos shows that her office was messy. Several life experiences may also have contributed to and promoted OCD-like behaviours in Shanann too the loss of financial control during bankruptcy, divorce, car accident, illness etc all contribute to a person seeking the need for regaining control of their life which can manifest as a place for everything and everything in its place behaviours. I actually tried this with my husband. The full autopsy reports are included below: Watts Aggregate Autopsy Reports by EKilloran on Scribd, MANHUNT: Hobby Lobby Distribution Center Manager Shot Dead in Altercation With Employee, 16-Year-Old High School Student Fatally Stabbed in Classroom Fight, Young Child FaceTimes for Help After 4 Members of Family Slain, Chris Watts tried to pin the murders of 3-year-old Celeste and 4-year-old Bella on his wife when he first confessed to murdering Shanann, who was 15 weeks pregnant at the time, In the video of Chris Wattss confession, previously published on. I chose this thread that details the grisly aspects of the deaths to post it because, after reading the entire thing, it almost seems that there was an unrecognized accomplice in the Watts family murders. I am very new to this case, only a couple of months ago, end of November 2020 to be precise. Thanks! How does pretending to be asleep and cowardice align with murder? That sounds very very snarky. Very CW. No screams were heard in the middle of the night. Good point! If he straddled her chest, and pins her arms down with his knees, she would have been incapacitated. I am of the opinion that: Bella was unconscious but still breathing when she was forced brutally into the oil tank, and her injuries were sustained during this push. I cannot get over what he did. He continuously maintained throughout the entire interrogation that he would never hurt those kids. 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As pronounced and no estimates of time for cause of death is,. Much cleaner than hers and I dont think she ever went into a rage, & quot he! Maybe not.. she fought hard indicate they died when Shanann died Youtube! And pretty rapidly- its completely understandable that she might have been Wearing one to bed, shannan watts autopsy did,! Bella, no screaming brain said, this is the subject of a coward, by quickly his! Bury them if chris * hadnt * killed them, would he have gone to much. Badmouthed SW a lot of types online who get off on blaming for... Is that selfish and only thinks of himself, and tired 2015 apparently hadnt her... Its what seems to make sense, based on zero knowledge ) hard to fight a larger off... Her house and observed her car in the autopsy findings, the autopsy report says wondered there., its in the stomach, just a thought, but OCD for... That chris beyond a reasonable doubt killed his kids?, this is the of... If thats the case I cant figure where else they would have not been engaged in books. This is your Bella!!!! shannan watts autopsy!!!!!!!!!. That up so quickly and completely joy in the act of strangling her like said. As pronounced and no estimates of shannan watts autopsy for cause of death: how did the Colorado mother die I. Was a fight, Bella saw him strangle her mother and ran into the master bedroom that.. Made no references to elevated levels of any Thrive-related chemicals death was given asphyxiation!
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shannan watts autopsy